Wilding Fifty: Surf Tales
Wilding Fifty: Surf Tales
Weed Meditation and Surf Gratification with Diana Tsai
In this episode we cover a wide range of topics with Diana Tsai from drought tolerant gardening, to short boarding, to how her training as a physical therapist informed how to get into paddling shape and deal with surfing injuries. I hope you enjoy this conversation.
Episode Highlights:
[00:00] Weed Meditation, growing worms and drought tolerant gardening
[08:35] Decent wave, minimal crowd. Our surf session
[12:25] Females can do what guys do. Transitioning to a short board
[16:30] The most amazing feeling. Learning to surf
[21:06] Eerie beaches. Surfing (or not) in the time of Covid
[23:12] I can see your brain! Surf injuries
Quotes from Diana Tsai:
"Since I'm a physical therapist, I was able to just manage it on my own and build up the strength."
"Surfing was a great outlet because it still allowed me to get out and get some exercise. It's actually what helped mentally and physically to get through that period of time where things were stressful and unknown."
"What was challenging with learning how to surf is that the muscles that you use and how you use them is really different from a lot of other forms of exercise. You have to get into paddling shape."
Get in touch with Diana Tsai
- Instagram: @diana_tsai
More about Christine Foerster
- christinefoerster.com
- Instagram @christinefoerster
If you are enjoying this podcast, please leave a rating or review. Thank you for your time!
Diana: She's trying to look at it and she's like, Oh, let's just clean it up. We'll use a Qtip. So she's, you know, back there using a Qtip. Yeah, and then I hear , Oh, oh. And I'm like, What? Cause we had been discussing whether I should go to urgent care to get it looked at, because it had been raining recently too so I was concerned about infection. So she was using that Qtip and all of a sudden she was like, Oh, oh, um, yeah, maybe you should go to urgent care.
Christine: I can see your brain!
Diana: Yeah.
Christine: Hello and welcome to Wilding fifties. I'm your host, Christine Foerster. In this podcast, I will be interviewing surfers for my local breaks and beyond following the surf session. Whether you are learning to surf like me keen on, new adventures, or in the mood for a good conversation, I hope you will find some inspiration with these surf tales.
Christine: Today we cover a wide range of topics with Diana Tsai from drought tolerant gardening to short boarding to how her training as a physical therapist informed how to get into paddling shape and deal with surfing injuries. I hope you enjoy this conversation.
Christine: Hi, Diana. Thank you so much for the surf session yesterday and for joining me today. I remember the first time I saw you, you had a bucket and a trowel and a lot of patience because you were picking every single weed that had grown after the rains and had we gotten a lot of rain that year. And that day, I think you were out there for about four hours. So I was impressed with how patient and calmly were picking each and every weed. Since that time, I've watched you and Nate transform your yard into a really lovely place, using very little water and it seems like very little mechanical tools as well. I was wondering if you could just talk a little bit about your approach to gardening.
Diana: Yeah . I tried to implement drought tolerant plants. I really enjoy gardening. It's a good stress release, time outside and I enjoy individually picking out those weeds, it's kind of gratifying at times. It's a little wearing cuz it just never ends. But, I find that it works better to really pull the weed out by the root versus, you know, some people will, just kind of scrape the tops off or, spray, which I don't really like using any chemical sprays. I want to try to keep everything as natural as possible and, environmentally friendly to all the beings.
Christine: You see, that's why I liked you before I even met you, and I said, yay, she's not using Roundup. Because you've got just the trowel and the bucket and it takes a little bit longer. It does. Right. It's kinda like weed meditation. But I guess it has other connotations. Right?
Diana: Right. But yeah, it is like a nice little, meditation or gratification, relaxation, whatever you wanna call it, stress relief sometimes.
Christine: And you do make progress. It probably seems a little daunting at first with all those weeds, but after a while you can appreciate the work, the labor, you can see the fruits of your effort.
Diana: Exactly. It's really satisfying. After, you've done a whole bunch and you look back and go, Wow, I've really got a lot accomplished in that time. But yes, it’s never ending.
Christine: Yes, cuz the rains sometimes they come. This year we didn't get much. And actually on the note of that, we are now in a pretty severe drought and you guys have also made this robust succulent garden in the center strip in the entire perimeter around your house and you're at the top of the hill. So it really is quite a large, long space. And you don’t, there's no water, right?
Diana: Yes.
Christine: So how are you doing that water?
Diana: Well we have rain barrels and we collect as much rain as we can throughout the year. Obviously it doesn't last all the way through the whole year, but we will just fill the watering can, and individually water each area of where there's plants so that we're not just, letting water waste, whether it's in play areas that don't need watering or out into the gutters, you know, neighbors with sprinklers that aren't even watering the area they need. It's just going into the gutter and running down the street. So, we just try to do our best to be water conscious. The succulents, once they're established, we really don't have to water to them very often. The big ones that have been there for a long time, we maybe water them like once a month. And then the newer ones that are trying to get established, we might water them depending on how hot the weather is once or twice a week until they get a little bit bigger and more established. Yeah. So it's pretty low maintenance.
Christine: Yeah, it's admirable. I know that we use more than our share of water.
Diana: But you also have a great drought tolerant, garden and you know, obviously you guys have the herbs and vegetables and fruits. Obviously you need more water for those type of plants, which is great.
Christine: We are guilty of watering our cement from time to time.
Diana: No, no I wasn't talking about you . I wasn't talking about you and also you have that giant rain barrel too, I think that's great. I remember seeing that when I first moved in and then going, Oh, that's really cool. That's a huge rain barrel .
Christine: Yeah. And this time of year we actually have it full and we're waiting for that moment in the middle of summer when it's so hot and everything is kind of drenched with that, solidified salt that comes from the city water. So we're using it sparingly. I also think if the apocalypse comes that we'll have a little source of water for the neighborhood.
Diana: Yes, I'm coming to you.
Christine: Well you are right there. So we've traded fruit for worm tea over the years as well. And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the kinds of worms that you raise .
Diana: You know, to be honest, I actually don't know much about the type of worms that are in there. Our good friend Marcus, he had a bin that he had at his home and at the time he was living down in Baja in Mexico. And he was getting ready to move across the country and he wasn't going to cart his worm bin all the way across the country cuz he is in his tiny little van. So he's like, Hey, do you guys want this, worm bin? We're like, Yeah, great. Cuz we had already had our regular composting bin. But, he taught us a little bit about how it worked and Nate's been the one that's mostly been in charge of the worm bin. And it's been pretty simple. I think they look like basic earthworms.
Christine: Are they red wigglers?
Diana: Maybe. Yeah.
Christine: Okay, we raised worms years ago. We were in Texas at that point. So, I'm not sure if it's the same in California. I guess they kind of have the same conditions, right. There's just like a closed space. It's a little, I remember it being a little testy though. There was one time when we left the worms, we went on a trip or something and we were raising cockroaches in the back. It was a cockroach farm.
Diana: Oh no.
Christine: It was a separate garage. So that's good that it wasn't part of the house, but it can turn, to another kind of farm pretty quickly.
Diana: Right. Not the one you want.
Christine: And you bring a ton of tea. I mean, I get like a half a gallon of warm tea and it, It's so precious, right? This nice gold liquid. And we savor it for some of the house plants. Yeah. And spread it around. It's really nice to have.
Diana: Yeah. I'm glad you enjoy it.
Christine: So I could make some guesses, but what would you say is the relationship between gardening and surfing for you?
Diana: Well, I guess the main thing that comes to mind is it's something that you can do that you enjoy that's outside. I am powered, which is like a lot of the other people powered by the sun. Obviously I try not to be out in the actual direct sunlight as much as I can, but you know, just being outside where there's sunlight, fresh air. It's just a really a good feeling, just to get out of the house and be doing something somewhat active. You know, gardening can be pretty low activity, but it can also be high activity. Sometimes I work up a sweat just trying to dig out some things and pulling some, some of the heavy duty weeds were pretty rough to pull out. I'd have to kind of almost get into a deep squat and just, pull like a leg press.
Christine: And you need, good squat position for surfing, don't you?
Diana: Yeah. Gardening and surfing are both total body workouts, cuz you're using your arms and your legs, your core, really every part of your body.
Christine: Both activities really get you out of that box, right? There's that idea that we live kind of in a box from the car to the computer, and if you're gardening you're squatting, you're reaching, you're sitting, you're standing, you're going in all these directions and surfing for sure puts you in all kinds of positions. You don't get to in a normal day to day.
Diana: Yes, definitely. And there was a point in time when my back was hurting me for, it was probably about a couple months where I really couldn't tolerate bending forward very well. And it was driving me crazy cuz I kind of stopped doing the gardening yard work. And then finally I'm like, I just need to get out there and do some things in the yard. So I ended up lying down, face down on the sidewalk and just kind of picking the weeds, lying there. And actually the paramedics, for some reason were just driving by on the street. And I'm sure they, were looking over at me like, probably, what the heck is that lady doing? Is she okay? Does she need help? ? But it worked, it helped me, let me do what I wanna do without aggravating my back.
Christine: That is commitment to gardening and to pulling weeds. So we had a fun time. The other day and I remember we met at the beach and then we studied the water for a little while and then, decided to go straight out from where we were cuz the waves were peaking kind of nicely right there and it was open. The waves next to the pier seemed to me a better wave, but yet we chose that spot. I know that you've told me that that's kind of where you tend to surf more in the open beach. So I'm, curious, do you think that the waves are better in the open part of the ocean? Or is it that you prefer a little bit of solitude or a little bit of your own space to surf?
Diana: That's a great question. I like to play the game of decent wave with minimal crowd versus surfing the best breaking wave with a ton of people around. Obviously yes, the waves right off the pier are the best breaking waves. Where we paddled out was, you know, it was okay. There were waves breaking, but definitely, not the best waves out there. But I tend to find that I have a better time surfing and when I'm a little bit, have a little more space to myself, a little bit more solitude,
Christine: It's the whole experience is what you're talking about too. Yeah. I can definitely see that. One thing that always strikes me is, and maybe this is just as a beginner, that when I'm out on the beach and I'm looking out, the waves look so different from that vantage point versus the minute I start paddling out and inevitably the waves look so much bigger. And it's probably a little bit the perspective, right? Because when you're standing on the beach, your vision, your eyeline is, higher. And you can kind of assess the whole thing and it, but the minute you start paddling out, even the day we went out it. I think Surfline said it was one to two foot, It was very small, and yet we start paddling out, and those waves were not one to two foot waves. And then you even said, Oh, they're peeking high and crashing fast. So my question is, does that change over time? Do you remember that? A feeling of how the waves felt different from the shoreline versus when you're out there in the water?
Diana: Yeah, definitely. When I was learning feel the same way and it's just like, Oh, okay, it does not look that big. And then as you're paddling you're, Oh my gosh, these waves are huge. There's moments that I still feel that way as well, but as you get a little bit more comfortable reading the waves, you can gauge what it's gonna be like once you start paddling out. It's funny, it actually comes to mind that, group of my girlfriends and I we went out and surfed in Fiji and they're probably three to four were the set waves. And, to us, we were kind of, beginner, intermediate surfers and we were with a group of more seasoned surfers, really well experienced surfers that have probably been surfing for 30, 40 years. And we were out there catching waves and having great time. And you know, after the surf sessions we'd be like, Oh my gosh, how big do you think that wave was? It was like overhead, right? And they're like, well, it was more like shoulder high. So it's really interesting, when you're, newer this to surfing you, the waves just seem so much bigger than, than they really are. But, you know, sometimes I think also people like to try to under call the waves. I know Nate does that sometimes. They're like, Oh yeah, that was like shoulder head high. But you know, he is six five and I'm five two. So him head high, shoulder high is overhead for me. So it's all perspective I guess.
Christine: I was just thinking too, that when you're learning, I spend a lot of time on my belly. Well, I guess if you're surfing, what, 90% of it is paddling, I think. And so maybe that's the point too, is that if you're always on your belly, the waves just look big but then even sometimes when people are catching 'em, it just seems like the wave is overcoming their entire body. So it almost seems like it's head high. The other day, I don't know if they were ever getting that high, but today surely they, were doing that.
Diana: Yeah. Today was definitely bigger, than the day we were out. Yeah. So you were probably reading it pretty accurately.
Christine: Okay. So you told me that when you were learning to surf, you wanted to move to a shortboard as soon as possible. I think you said you started on a 6’10” surfboard, is that right?
Diana: Yes. 6’8” egg.
Christine: And then from there, your goal was to move down as quickly as possible. What I've heard is that oftentimes that rush to move to a shortboard can actually be a disadvantage when you're learning because you need to learn the proper alignment and how to pop up properly and that some people actually slow down their progress if they go to a shorter board too fast. But it doesn't seem like that was the case with you. Would you talk a little bit about that transition for you? And were you able to make that transition quickly? And if you were, , How did you do that?
Diana: I mean, I don't know if it was quickly. I do remember being on a 6’8” for, a while, and once I felt more comfortable and I was catching waves out in the lineup and dropping in at the appropriate time, I was kinda like, Hey, I think I'm gonna try, a smaller board. The main reason why I wanted drop down to smaller board was I was just too lazy to carry a big board. And sometimes it felt a little, cumbersome for me in the water, with a bigger board.
Diana: Maybe I didn't learn enough of the technique of trying to turn a bigger board, but I've always wanted, was drawn to short boarding. I think watching, the professional shortboard surfers on tv, the females like Lisa Anderson and Layne Beachly, those ladies. You know, it was just really cool, cuz it wasn't the norm either. Most female surfers were on bigger boards, like long boarding and I was kinda like females can do what guys do too. You know, cuz it used to be more like, the guys ride short boards and the women ride long boards. I can do whatever a guy can do. Right. And, , I do enjoy the feel of a shortboard, you know, it's a lot more responsive with turns and , different type of waves are, better suited for shorter boards than long boards. So, it just kind of fit more my style. And I, you know, long boarding is awesome. So I've been actually kind of dabbling a little bit on that as well.
Christine: I always think the minute you jump to a shortboard you can conduct dive waves and that's my goal one day is I really wanna just be able to get through, paddle through quickly. So when you were riding a 5’8” were you able to duck dive?
Diana: Yeah. You know, it, took a lot of practice. Once you learned the technique. Actually, I've been able to duct dive my mid-length board, which is a 6’8”.
Christine: Really?
Diana: So it's a 6’8” board and it's got a good amount of volume. I wanna say it's got 41 liters, obviously I can't duct dive it. Well, I don't take it out on really, giant days anyway, where it's really, breaking really hard. But I've been able to duck dive it on, you know, kind of those rolly, softer, type breaking waves.
Christine: And you're pushing the nose of the board in down first, is that right? And you use your knee.
Diana: Yep. Some people will use their knee. I actually bring my foot up to push the back end of the board under. You wanna paddle and have some forward momentum as you're approaching the way that's about to break. And then grab your rails, which is the side of your board. And push the nose down under there. And then you wanna follow up whether it's with your knee or your foot, and push the back end of your board down under there as well, so that you'll be under the wave as it's breaking.
Christine: So what is the big, cautionary tip when you're learning to duck dive?
Diana: You just have to practice a lot. I remember not being able to do it right off the bat, it doesn't look great. You're probably gonna kind of get pushed around, but you just gotta keep trying and keep practicing and eventually, you'll get it. What I've learned over time as well is it is critical to try to get as much of that forward momentum before you duck dive under the wave because that helps you get under the water better.
Christine: And that's the same when you're pressing through the wave, which was what I do with my board, where I grab the rails and I press my body up trying to get the wave to run between me and the board to have the least resistance. I, oftentimes still get twisted all around when I do that. But that's the idea too, that you're paddling, getting some momentum, and then you press up right when that wave comes and have, it kind of travel through you.
Diana: Yeah.
Christine: So similar, similar technique. Well, let's go back when, and how did you begin surfing?
Diana: I started surfing actually when I was 16, my friend and I, we grew up in the Bay Area about, an hour from the closest surf break, but we both were interested in surfing. But, where we grew up, there was no surf culture. We didn't live near the beach, but I was always interested in trying to learn. So my friends and I found someone, I don't know how cuz that was before the internet, so anyway, we met our surf instructor, this guy, and he had the boards and the wetsuits and he kind of gave us like a quick little tutorial on what to do. And then we went out and it was really fun. I actually got up on the first wave. I think he might have given me a little push to help get me in the wave, I mean, it was a big foam board and I just popped right up and I was like Oh, this is the most amazing feeling.
Diana: Unfortunately, we didn't really keep up with it. Years went by before I actually started surfing more consistently again, let's see, around 24 is when I picked it back up and really got into it.
Christine: And you were still up north? Or had you moved south?
Diana: I moved south by then. Yeah. So, I did go a handful of times while I was in college cause I went to UC San Diego, which is very close to some really well known breaks.
Christine: Blacks being one of them, right?
Diana: Yes. Black's being one of 'em, but I didn't spend a ton of time at Blacks since I was such a newbie. We were going down to La Jolla Shores and close to Scripps Pier. Then in grad school, my last year was mostly internships and part-time class, but, so I moved to Solana Beach and I lived with a friend of mine who really enjoyed surfing as well. So that's when I started to really go a lot more consistently and that's where I really of took off with my surfing.
Christine: So just going back, Blacks is one of my favorite beaches. Just to describe it, it is accessible only by, well, there's two routes, right? There's the surfer route and then the pedestrian route. And that pedestrian route is a beautiful hike, gosh, it takes like about 20 minutes or so rambling, and there's all these signs posted to go at your own risk because with the rains and different conditions it can get pretty treacherous. But then you land down on the beach and it feels like what California probably looked like before all the development. You don't really see anything because the cliffs are so high. You sometimes see the para gliders coming over and it's a magical place. And then of course, it's also a nudist beach too, right? So there's that element. And then La Hoya shores. And what I've heard is that it has a really strong, big break. I've never surfed there. I used to go swimming there all the time. In contrast, La Jolla Shores is a very gentle break, and it's a perfect place to learn, and these two beaches are very close to one another, but La Jolla Shores it's almost like a tiny little bay, so it's protected, but yet again, it gets a perfect swell. Those waves really, when they say one to two foot waves, that's what I think that they're talking about.
Christine: Tell me then about any specific challenges of learning to surf. What about any technical difficulties? Was there anything that was challenging to you? In the beginning?
Diana: What was challenging with learning how to surf is that the muscles that you use or how you use them, is really different from a lot of other forms of exercise. You have to get into paddling shape. So even if you are, you know, a really avid runner or working on the gym it's still not the same So it's tiring. And especially when you're inefficient, it feels like you're just flowing around. It might be a little harder to get into the wave cuz you're already kind of fatigued so that you can't paddle as efficiently to try to catch the waves. But, it's all part of the learning. And even now, you know, if I find that I haven't gotten out in the water for a stretch of time, the first time I get back out in the water, I'm like, Oh man, I'm really outta shape. I'm winded from just paddling out to the lineup, whereas, if you're going on a more regular basis, it's a lot easier.
Christine: It is. I've felt that too, that with more practice, I'm getting stronger. But it is a whole different arrangement of your muscles. Your neck has to be very strong. You have to have your core kind of nailed into the board and then your feet together and kind of lifted off, right? They're not dragging. . and your chest lifted. So it's almost like you're making this like a C shape with your body. You see the best surfers that are very efficient and they just, look so, graceful when they paddle and there's no drag in the water,
Diana: Right. Yeah.
Christine: But that is a lot of muscle control, isn't it?
Diana: Exactly. Yeah.
Christine: So you've talked about surfing as an outlet for difficult times. Do you have an example to draw on?
Diana: When Covid started, no one really knew what was happening, what we were supposed to do or not do. So, everything shut down for a little bit. The gyms were closed, everything, right? So surfing was still a great outlet though, cuz it still allowed me to get out, have some space away from people, get some exercise. It's actually what really helped me get through that period of time where things were stressful and unknown, and just kind of helped me mentally and physically,
Christine: Except they shut the beaches down too for a time. That was the most eerie thing to go by the beach and see them absolutely empty.
Diana: Yes. That, was weird feeling and very strange to not see anyone out in the water. It was a decent stretch, but you know, what I did during that time was a ton of yard work. So, and, it was kind of nice. I got a lot done and I wasn't experiencing any fomo because oftentimes when I'm doing something else besides surfing, I'm always like, Whoa, how are the waves? Am I missing out? You know, thinking about surfing and if I'm not going at the right time and knowing that there was no one allowed to be surfing out there, it was like, okay, well it's not an option, so let's just do this stuff, and so I got a lot of yard work done during that time.
Christine: Well, at least they, they brought it back. They said if you went to the beach, you had to be doing something physical. It was, more that you just couldn't go to the beach and hang out. Set up a big barbecue with your friends.
Diana: Mm-hmm.Right, Right. You couldn’t just set up a towel and lay out on the beach.
Christine: But the ocean is such a good filter, so it seems like it makes sense actually being outdoors in any case. We need that exposure. Our immune system gets strong when we're exposed to clean air and to the ocean and it just seems like it should benefit if we are dealing with some kind of a pandemic that everybody should just get in the ocean. .
Diana: Yeah. Salt water rinse, some sunshine, Vitamin D, fresh air, exercise. But I guess they really didn't know what was happening, so it was a little bit of a shut down mode.
Christine: And have you had any injuries directly from surfing? I'm thinking of this also because you are a, sports therapist.
Diana: I have had two injuries from surfing. One is where as I was dropping into wave, my front foot slipped and I basically had a mcl sprain. I didn't actually ever go get it looked at but, I felt it and I knew exactly what had happened right when it happened. It hurt and it took a while to heal and rehab it and no, I didn't really do anything official for it.
Christine: That's really fortunate that you understood exactly what was happening with your body, cuz that was your training, so you know exactly what you strained and exactly what to do for it.
Diana: Exactly. Since I'm a physical therapist myself, I was able to just manage it on my own and build up the strength. My other injury was really a fluke. And it was a small day. But I caught a wave and at the tail end, I jumped off or ate it, you know, ate it probably. . and as , the water's all rushing around. My surfboard somehow swung around and I think the nose might have hit the back of my head, like right behind where my ear connects to my skull.
Christine: Ow
Diana: Yeah. It hurt pretty bad. I think I saw stars when it happened. And I stood up cause it was shallow. I reached back to touch it and then I looked down and my whole hand was just covered in blood. So, My friend, who I was surfing with, we were actually planning on getting out anyway, so she was like, Okay, one more wave. And I'm like, alright. And I just stood there and waited for her and then we went in and I'm like, Oh, I just got hit. And she's like, Oh, well come back to my house. Cuz she lived right across the street. And so she's trying to, look at it and she's like, Oh, let's just clean it up. We'll use a Q-tip. So she's, you know, back there using a Qip . Yeah. And then also I hear she's like, Oh, , , oh.
Diana: And I'm like, What? Cause we had been discussing whether I should go, to urgent care, , because it had been raining recently too. So I was concerned about infection . So she was using that Q-tip and all of a sudden she was like, Oh, oh, um, yeah, maybe you should go to urgent care.
Christine: I can see your brain!
Diana: Yeah. So I drove myself down to the urgent care. Then I ended up needing like 12 stitches, but yeah, my friend didn't say it right away, but after the fact she's like, Yeah, when I was using the qip, I put it in and all of a sudden the Qtip part disappeared and part of the little stick and , it like was really deep. So , that's how I knew you should go get help
Christine: Well, a good thing that you were surfing with a friend, right? I was thinking about the ending of our surf session the other day when we rode in and we caught this perfect boogie board wave all the way to the shore. And our fins were dragging on the sand, and when we had gotten in the water it was kind of gloomy, little June gloom, and by the time we got out, the sun was shiny, everything was sparkly. And that shoreline was really, long, I don't know if that had to do with our long ride in, but it seemed like that shallow water went on forever, and then there were all these beautiful glisteny shells underneath us. It was so magical, and I thought, Gosh, we were so lucky that it's the middle of summer, and yet you and I found our own little patch of fun in the water. And the only thing we did was we just got there a little bit early.
Diana: Yeah, it was a good time. Right.
Christine: It was a wonderful time. Thank you so much, Diana.
Diana: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, Christine.
Christine: Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and if you feel inclined to leave a kind review, I would greatly appreciate it. I hope you'll stay tuned for the next surf tale on the Wilding 50 Podcast.
